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May 06, 2008

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The Troll

Biofuels are still a waste of food period. Fuel made from US corn was supposed to ease our foriegn oil dependancy. it hasn't. It was supposed to be better for the environment, it's not.

When a nation chooses to burn it's food instead of drilling for an abundant natural resource. That nation plays the fool.

Dave Ross

Flex Fuel is a lower octane than regular gas, the engine burns more fuel, hence, more fill-ups and less BANG for your buck!

Dale Mastarone

Fuel prices are up in Iowa. Food prices are up. Now it appears the favorite whipping boy is ethanol to take the blame. The word is out, we are using food for fuel in America and we should be ashamed of ourselves as the story goes. And it is the tall corn state, Iowa, and its people, you and I, which are being mistakenly focused upon as nasty and ultimately evil because Iowa is contributing to making children starve around the world because “our” corn is not being used as food -- instead it is being used to fuel gas-guzzling SUVs. That argument is completely bogus in my humble opinion. And so are most all other arguments made against ethanol likewise bogus.

Ethanol does not consume food for fuel, but, instead, refining corn in the fermentation process actually extends the world food supply. The fermentation process makes corn more digestible for ruminant animals, so you need to feed them less, thus increasing the available supply. How much of an increase in the world food supply? Refining 3 billion bushels or 25% of the 2007 American corn crop to begin to meet the goal to make America energy independent under the present federal Energy Act signed into law will not take 3 billion bushels of corn away from the world food supply in year 2008. Instead it will actually add the equivalent of an additional 300 million bushels of corn to the world food supply! That is enough corn to fill 375,000 semi grain trucks (800 bushel capacity, 65 feet long each) lined up bumper to bumper all the way from the beach in Atlantic City, New Jersey, to the beach in Santa Barbara, California, and then half again back across this great land to the Four Corners in Osceola, Iowa, 4,616 miles!

To see how the above was arrived at there is an article posted on www.libertytruth.org, and once to the web site click on the Old Codger’s blog. What you read you might call thinking outside the box, but where is the law that says we must all think inside the box? Who built the box in the first place? For what reason is there a box? To keep us contained? The purpose for that web-posting is for people to direct all those they know that are running for public office, local, state and federal in this election year to read it also so when they take office they will be better informed and more likely to promote a vital industry in this country to move us toward energy independence, along with feeding the hungry.

Carney

TheTroll, you are well named.

"Biofuels are still a waste of food period."

Did you read the article? Do facts matter to you? It showed with numbers and facts that biofuels are no threat to food at all. In fact they help reduce the price of food and make it more available by helping cap fuel and fertilizer costs.

"Fuel made from US corn was supposed to ease our foriegn oil dependancy. it hasn't."

Yes it has. When 10% of our gasoline is in fact ethanol, that cuts substantially into our gasoline usage, 60% of which comes from overseas.

But you're right that there's a long way to go. Getting there requires a relatively simple step of mandating as standard equipment a minor change in all new cars so that they can run not just high gasoline low alcohol blends as they do now, but can also run the opposite (high alcohol low gasoline), such as E85 and M85, which are only 15% gasoline.

Instead of a tiny 6% chop in gasoline usage, an 85% slash in it would have enormous effects.

"It was supposed to be better for the environment, it's not."

It's FAR better for the environment. Alcohol fuels produce far less NOx, and they are only one tenth as reactive to it, so the effect is far less. Furthermore they produce no sulfur. So the contribution to ozone smog and acid rain from vehicles is massively slashed.

Furthermore unlike gasoline alcohols produce NO SOOT, SMOKE, OR PARTICULATE EMISSIONS. No conventional smog whatsoever. Ask a Los Angeleno or a resident of Beijing if that would be nice. The EPA says 40,000 Americans die a year from that.

Going on, unlike gasoline, alcohols are non-carcinogenic and non-mutagenic.

And unlike gasoline, alcohols dissolve in water instead of persisting as floating scum. And even if they didn't, they are (again, unlike petroleum and its refined products) readily biodegradable, breaking down within a day if not hours within safe components. Meanwhile the Exxon Valdez is STILL killing wildlife a decade later, and leaks from underground gasoline stations are poisoning groundwater. Neither would happen with alcohol.

"When a nation chooses to burn it's food instead of drilling for an abundant natural resource. That nation plays the fool."

We have about 4% of the world's oil reserves, and the Mideast has over 70%. If we keep going, we'll be down to 1% and the Mideast will have over 80%. And that's WITHOUT tapping our offshore and ANWR reserves, which would deplete what little we have even faster. That's a desperation, one-shot Derringer we should keep ready for truly dire emergencies.

A nation that eats its basement emergency rations just to keep business as usual going is the real fool.

Especially when it can switch, easily and with very little cost, to a cheaper, cleaner burning fuel that does not fund its enemies.

Did you know that in 2008 we spent more on foreign oil than on our own defense budget? We're funding both sides in the war on terror. Who's the fool again?

Carney

Dave Ross said: "Flex Fuel is a lower octane than regular gas,"

First of all, "flex fuel" is not a fuel, it's a reference to a car being able to burn more than one fuel rather than being unnecessarily locked in to one fuel only. Flex fuel cars in the current context can not only run on gasoline but also on any alcohol fuel (and there are many).

What you unnecessarily tried to say is that "alcohol fuel is a lower octane".

And second of all, you're flat-out wrong about that. Methanol and ethanol have a far higher octane rating than ordinary gasoline. The exact number varies depending on the source and composition (such as whether it is a blend with 15% gasoline), but this fact is not disputed. Google for more.

"the engine burns more fuel, hence, more fill-ups"

Now this is true. The "more fill ups" problem is relatively easily solved by just making the fuel tanks a little bigger. Much of the design of a car, even its walls, is empty space, its edges defined by with curved metal and plastic. Some of this empty space (not passenger or cargo space) can be filled with extra room for a bigger fuel tank. And alcohol is safer in crashes, less likely to explode.

"and less BANG for your buck!"

Untrue. Methanol is far cheaper than gasoline, and ethanol slightly cheaper. Ethanol could also be much cheaper if we dropped our tarrifs on Brazilian ethanol.

So yes you get fewer miles per gallon, but contrary to your claim you get more miles per DOLLAR.

Especially when you look at prices over the last several years rather than just this slump. OPEC has slashed production to raise gasoline prices again.

Alcohol fuel is not just cheap during an economic downturn; it's cheap permanently.

The reason is the vast and wide resource base available for alcohol. Ethanol can be made from the starchy or sugary portions of a wide variety of plants (at least 17 by one count) which can be grown the world over. Methanol can be made from plentiful coal and natural gas, or from ANY biomass without exception including crop residues, weeds, trash, and sewage. That means nobody can "corner" the market on alcohol fuel and deliberately choke back production to artificially raise the price, let alone funnel those monopoly profits into extremist propaganda, illicit nuclear weapons programs, and terrorism.

In every way, alcohols are worth it compared to gasoline.

Mark

If you can handle the truth, watch the ethanol myth buster and discover in a few minutes what the public will never know.

https://www.permaculture.com/site/node/1329

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For our reading class we have to make a food for the theme of our book. My theme is adventure. So what food can I make for adventure thats not to hard and expensive?

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But you're right that there's a long way to go. Getting there requires a relatively simple step of mandating as standard equipment a minor change in all new cars so that they can run not just high gasoline low alcohol blends as they do now, but can also run the opposite (high alcohol low gasoline), such as E85 and M85, which are only 15% gasoline.

louis

I’m hoping that we’ll end up with a slew of prototyped ideas and a bunch of happy people. I’m sure there’ll be a lot more hard work until we can turn those embryonic proofs of concept into living

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Sounds very logical, this is not the technology that will save the world, meanwhile It is intended only to dilute the population of Earth. Exhausting the soil to move the wealthy world when the rest are remaining hungry.

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This is an essential stage since it determines the exact shape of the building's foundation.

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I think in this more than a true, if you observe the change of the food prices, anytime that fuel price change, you can see that is real, for example, in the last fuel change most of the basic product raise it prices, for that reason I think in this as something real and not as a myth.

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